Which Yellow Optima Battery...

[MilehighLR3]

First, no where did I say any loss was permanent. However there is a degree of sulfation on the plate surface (which is by definition a discharged battery) unless the battery has been allowed to rest in that state for an extended period of time is reversible with the proper charging technology.

Second the smoking gun you're referring to was stated within your own comments . . ..while the Optima will do what you say, provided the charging source has the ability to provide higher current (which an alternator does not unless the RPM's are higher on the engine, voltage is limited by the regulator). While it's doing this "transfer" voltage it is discharging, lowering it's own state of charge, thereby reducing it's capacity.

Unless you've performed a discharge test, to verify the capacity, you only have anecdotal opinion (no offense intended). There is absolutely no possible way a lead acid battery, regardless of construction, will retain 100% of it's capacity below it's 100% state of charge.

That being said, the higher power technology will provide higher capacity(relative to other lead acid tech) at lower states of charge, the higher the discharge rate the better, but not what it would do if it was at 100%, which has been my statement from the beginning of this debate.

Still doubt my statements? Measure the key off open circuit voltage of an Optima Yellow Top, if it is not 13.1, it is not at 100% state of charge.

 

[drivesafe]

First, no where did I say any loss was permanent.

So what were you implying in this claim?

I never replied that you cannot parallel different battery makes/models. My comment was in a perfect world you would parallel like product. I also commented that the higher capacity of the two will decrease to that of the lower capacity unit.

That doesn't mean that it's wrong, bad, or detrimental. It simply means that you will not be taking advantage of the full capacity of the higher potential. No one would pay for 10 gallons of fuel and be satisfied with 8, perhaps an extreme comparison but not out of line.

Second the smoking gun you're referring to was stated within your own comments . . ..while the Optima will do what you say, provided the charging source has the ability to provide higher current (which an alternator does not unless the RPM's are higher on the engine, voltage is limited by the regulator). While it's doing this "transfer" voltage it is discharging, lowering it's own state of charge, thereby reducing it's capacity.

We are talking about Optima batteries fitted the LR3s, these vehicle produce around 45+ amps at idle and well over 100 amps when cruising. Just how many amps do you reckon is needed to charge a 55Ah battery.

During low voltage stating tests, after discharging both the cranking battery and my Optima down to 11.5v, after starting my D3 ( LR3 ) I then monitored the charge rate of the Optima and once up to street speeds ( 60 to 80 KPH ) I was getting 63 amps at the Optima, and note, the cranking battery was also in a low state so it was also pulling high currents.

These are not special events, they are standard charging figures found with any D3 and I might also note that one D3 owner in the UK, with a vehicle set up for battery monitoring and a different brand of isolator, after unintentionally flattening his Optima battery while away for a weekend, measured 97 amps going into the battery when he first got going.

So again, just how much current do you recommend is needed?

Contrary to your theories, the D3/LR3, D4/LR4 and RRS have the idea charging regime and my isolators combined with batteries like Optimas, exploit the advantages offered by these vehicles, and no one is finding any of the theoretical problems you claim will happen.

 

[MilehighLR3]

How did you measure the current? Amp clamp on the cable, anything above 58 amps is lost as heat.

Charging requires two components, voltage and amperage. Amperage without the voltage is irrelevant.

Prove me wrong, once and for all, measure the key off open circuit voltage of you Optima, you obvously have one.

 

[drivesafe]

As with any battery, if you don’t have the voltage difference required between the battery's SoC and the charging source, you don’t have current draw by the battery and so even without knowing the voltage levels, the fact the battery was pulling 63 amps proves there was a sufficiently high enough charging voltage, as you should know.

The voltage was the operating voltage of the vehicle’s alternator which at the start of the charge was 14.3v, charging the battery via a 5m twin 10mm2 extension lead.

Had the battery been connected via a shorter thicker lead, the charge current would have been even higher.

You’re do nothing but inventing problems that don’t exist.

 

[MilehighLR3]

This will be my final response to this thread, I've grown tired of the detate.

I can appreciate that your device is better than most, and arguably probably better than all other isolator setups. And I appreciate what your experience has provided you and for the most part I'm in agreement with your comments and statements.

However, you've never run a discharge test to prove or disprove any capacity lost. All you've ever measured was in rush current, perhaps outgoing current and the on charge voltage output of the alternator.

Put an end to all this bickering and "I know more than you do" rhetoric. Go check your Optima's OCV . . . . what is the measurement?

 

[drivesafe]

This will be my final response to this thread, I've grown tired of the detate.

Put an end to all this bickering and "I know more than you do" rhetoric.

This thread has nothing to do with bickering or for that matter, about my isolators.

Just about every claim you have made flies in the face of what happens in the real world.

For instance, you claim an alternator can’t provide enough current to charge whereas the facts are that a D3/LR3 has by far enough current production at idle to well and truly charge these batteries.

When this is pointed out to you, you then make some half baked comments about the charge current is not 63 amp but only 58 amp, you honestly trying to infer that even 58 amps will not charge these batteries.

Have you actually bothered to measure the charge currents and voltages of aD3/LR3 .

And one more point, over the 35 years I’ve been designing automotive electronics and the 20+ years that I have specialised in dual battery systems, I have carried at least 100 charge/discharge capacity tests, and most of this testing has been carried out in the last 5 years because of all the new lower operating voltages of a number of makes of vehicles.

These test just don’t match the “RHETORIC” you have been claiming.