toddjb122
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Tell umberto to come back!! We miss him.
That was me who pinged the admins on creating a new Defender board and letting them know it was causing people to leave.
LR4s out there holding their value maybe more than just quite well
- Thread starter manoftaste
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That was me who pinged the admins on creating a new Defender board and letting them know it was causing people to leave.
Here is Umberto's new ride...
https://landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/exploring-mojave-desert-102630/
https://landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/exploring-mojave-desert-102630/
Don't think I've seen too many photos of that blue color. I like it.
I've pulled no punches on how I don't much care for the new Defender, at least as a "Defender." That said, it does seem like it's a nice vehicle for what it is. I could maybe see myself owning one someday as I hate myself and enjoy eating my own **** often.
That said, my LR4 is getting ready to hit 100k. I've got all the big ticket things done to it (timing chains, LCAs, etc.) and it's in pretty dang good condition. Things that would give it value if I were to sell it are the same things that make me lean towards keeping it, at least for a while longer.
LB Bill
Full Access Member
Also not meaning to hijack this fine LR4 appreciation thread, but when I look at 'Forums' on here it seems that there is one for the new Defender:
https://www.landroverworld.org/forums/defender-l663-2020-present.107/. ??
Back to LR4's
I purposely haven't driven a Defender yet..(too tempting). I think my 16 'Landmark' with only 13.5K miles has a lot of trouble free miles left in her, and I've yet to 'make it mine' after purchasing it at the end of my lease...(still pretty much stock). And I wouldn't do that if I was planning on making the change.
There's also the fact that to duplicate the luxury appointments of my 'Landmark' and the HD pack, the price of a Defender 110 goes significantly north of $80K!
And there's also the convenience/versatility factors- I can (even two can) sleep in the back, and it turns into a good moving van each time one of my kids moves around town.
https://www.landroverworld.org/forums/defender-l663-2020-present.107/. ??
Back to LR4's
I purposely haven't driven a Defender yet..(too tempting). I think my 16 'Landmark' with only 13.5K miles has a lot of trouble free miles left in her, and I've yet to 'make it mine' after purchasing it at the end of my lease...(still pretty much stock). And I wouldn't do that if I was planning on making the change.
There's also the fact that to duplicate the luxury appointments of my 'Landmark' and the HD pack, the price of a Defender 110 goes significantly north of $80K!
And there's also the convenience/versatility factors- I can (even two can) sleep in the back, and it turns into a good moving van each time one of my kids moves around town.
Philip Mascioli
Member
Thought I shared this with you guys here.
Couple of weeks ago I visited my dealership for scheduled maintenance. As I was checking out the new Defenders on the floor, a sales guide approaches, we chat a bit, and it comes up that I currently own an LR4.
"Hmm...", he says with interest. "They are quite in demand and whenever we get one in for sale, it usually is gone within four or five days."
"In fact.." he continues, "...LR4s are forcing us to price the D5 higher because we cannot sell a D5 cheaper than an LR4."
But here is the kicker
Last week as I go back to pick up my truck, I am pleasantly surprised to see the car all detailed out. The thing looked practically brand new and better than when I had originally picked it up for the first time.
As I am getting ready to get behind the wheel, a well-mannered man in grey jacket asks a question as he passes by:
"Are you interested in selling your LR4?"
Me smiling: Thanks, but I am not interested.
Curious man: It looks new, just get it?"
Me: No I've had it for a while, but did buy it new in '16.
Curious man: I am the sales manager here, I am willing to pay you the same amount that you paid for it.
Me: Could you please repeat that again?
Curious man: Sure, I am willing to pay you the same amount that you paid when you purchased it.
Me: Thank you, but I intend to keep it. Why are they holding their value so well, what about it?
Curious man: Customers just love the design. They are not even aware of the technical aspects of things.
Me: They like the design more than the new Defender?
Curious man: Yes. Here is my card if you decide otherwise.
May have felt a little bit like that famous scene from the movie Indecent Proposal when the billionaire Robert Redford approaches ***** Harrelson and Demi Moore with the proposal, ha.
He further went on to say that he usually has ten to fifteen leads already lined up before an LR4 comes in for sale, and that the customers are always asking for it whether he has got one in yet.
Also he said that if one comes in, it usually is sold within two days.
Thought some of you here might find the above interesting
And just a disclaimer here, I know I have been quite critical, but certainly dont wanna come across as shooting down the new Defender as that car certainly has a presence when seen in person and holds its own. So anyone here toying with the idea of exploring the possibility of owning one should really not go by the pictures alone but should go out and see that thing in person in real life first before forming their opinion.
Like some of you here, I too was invited to that private event here in LA last year and had a chance to meet and chat a little with both Gerry McGovern and the NA CEO. Been meaning to share the conversation and my own personal take on things and thoughts on the new Defender but one thing after another
Philip Mascioli
Member
Good stuff. My 2015 presently in for service. My loaner is the RR Velar. Apparently they want me to consider trading mine in or perhaps buy one for my wife. Regardless, the LR4 is the best vehicle for all my needs. However the Velar is still fun as hell to drive. Not too crazy about the two rather large screens.
Seabassjfr
Active Member
This thinking has been in my mind since i own one with the intention of keeping it forever...
Like i said before, that was exactly the sense of the current market that i could feel nowdays on LR4s, they would last no more than 3 days on sale, and they are high in demand... when mine was delivered to my home, was perfectly detailed and looked brand new, seriously a friend of mine said to us "so is that a 2020"? lol, and also everyone strolling will stop and stare at it...People really dig into square/box designs
Mine was also a 2013 80k mileages and paid 20k for it. I feel i had a great deal since, the others i looked at where about same conditions as mine, starting msrp around 24/28k.
Here i share a few shots, from recent Free Diving explorations on the cold waters of the PNW... and our LR4 taking us to the adventure.
manoftaste
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Here is the prob, friends: There is currently nothing, and I mean, nothing, on the market like an LR3/4 today.
I have sat in a bunch of would be potential replacement candidates including the LX 570 and the new Defender (many times in the new Defender over the duration of past several months). Each time I came back with more appreciation for LR4.
There are technical reasons, mechanical reasons, functional reasons, logistical reasons, aesthetics reasons, and above all safety reasons, specially in bad weather situations, like heavy cross winds.
Its not really the boxy design, its the graceful, minimalist, product design language that makes the truck look like a 2020 model when you see one go past by you, or parked across the street, specially if you spot one while driving or sitting inside a sedan. And that is even after sixteen years of its introduction. Can the same be said for a 2006 Range Rove Sport? No.
An instantly recognizable, pleasing to the eye, modern looking icon and design language, confirming that often, less is more.
One quick glance without even getting into its engineering, and you can tell that LR3/4 was never designed to follow a trend, a fad, bandwagon, soccermom train, or to please the car critics or automotive pundits or to push the sales.
The designers and the engineers were not worried about the sales, thats the tasteless bean counters' job. Instead, the goal here was clear. They were focused on one thing and that was to make a better product, functional, and a modern product without compromising the James Bond personality. And the result was automatic.
And the above philosophy is quite evident in the end result, the end user can see it, and thats why is willing to pay for it.
A better product will always outsell a mediocre product which is solely produced to sell.
The problem here is that in order to create one, you have to have passion first, or else there would be no efforts/creations/shakeups like the Tesla, forcing others to get off their fat behinds or be left behind.
As far as the latest and the greatest in tech which becomes outdated every six months, I am quite ok without it because my phone more than makes up for it.
As long as I can connect my phone to my car, able to make/receive phone calls, and able to stream music, I personally can easily do without anything else.
I am not quite ready yet to trade in IBF and lower center of gravity, command view driving seating position, stadium seating, folded seats, zero incline, flat cargo floor, greenhouse airy/roomy feel with three separate properly positioned light sources (sun/moon roofs) therefore distributing light evenly across the entire cabin (front to all the way back to the third row), and the graceful and clean aesthetics among other things, for some latest tech gizmo and large LCD screens.
If I wanted latest tech and large LCD screens across the dashboard, I'd have looked for a BMW or an Audi.
In fact the longer I wait, the larger these LCD screens get and the more jazzy flashy the graphics get So once (or if) the level of engineering, ingenuity, and innovation catch back up at LR, I'd then look into replacing my LR4 with an LR product, or it will be another brand unfortunately.
I am quite sure my sales manager already has a solid lead(s) who is willing to pay anything for an LR4 , hence the offer, otherwise he would not waste his and my time. He did not come across as the traditional salesman type to me, neither super nice, playing it safe type. The vibe was just genuine and clear interest in doing business.
I have sat in a bunch of would be potential replacement candidates including the LX 570 and the new Defender (many times in the new Defender over the duration of past several months). Each time I came back with more appreciation for LR4.
There are technical reasons, mechanical reasons, functional reasons, logistical reasons, aesthetics reasons, and above all safety reasons, specially in bad weather situations, like heavy cross winds.
Its not really the boxy design, its the graceful, minimalist, product design language that makes the truck look like a 2020 model when you see one go past by you, or parked across the street, specially if you spot one while driving or sitting inside a sedan. And that is even after sixteen years of its introduction. Can the same be said for a 2006 Range Rove Sport? No.
An instantly recognizable, pleasing to the eye, modern looking icon and design language, confirming that often, less is more.
One quick glance without even getting into its engineering, and you can tell that LR3/4 was never designed to follow a trend, a fad, bandwagon, soccermom train, or to please the car critics or automotive pundits or to push the sales.
The designers and the engineers were not worried about the sales, thats the tasteless bean counters' job. Instead, the goal here was clear. They were focused on one thing and that was to make a better product, functional, and a modern product without compromising the James Bond personality. And the result was automatic.
And the above philosophy is quite evident in the end result, the end user can see it, and thats why is willing to pay for it.
A better product will always outsell a mediocre product which is solely produced to sell.
The problem here is that in order to create one, you have to have passion first, or else there would be no efforts/creations/shakeups like the Tesla, forcing others to get off their fat behinds or be left behind.
As far as the latest and the greatest in tech which becomes outdated every six months, I am quite ok without it because my phone more than makes up for it.
As long as I can connect my phone to my car, able to make/receive phone calls, and able to stream music, I personally can easily do without anything else.
I am not quite ready yet to trade in IBF and lower center of gravity, command view driving seating position, stadium seating, folded seats, zero incline, flat cargo floor, greenhouse airy/roomy feel with three separate properly positioned light sources (sun/moon roofs) therefore distributing light evenly across the entire cabin (front to all the way back to the third row), and the graceful and clean aesthetics among other things, for some latest tech gizmo and large LCD screens.
If I wanted latest tech and large LCD screens across the dashboard, I'd have looked for a BMW or an Audi.
In fact the longer I wait, the larger these LCD screens get and the more jazzy flashy the graphics get
So once (or if) the level of engineering, ingenuity, and innovation catch back up at LR, I'd then look into replacing my LR4 with an LR product, or it will be another brand unfortunately.I am quite sure my sales manager already has a solid lead(s) who is willing to pay anything for an LR4 , hence the offer, otherwise he would not waste his and my time. He did not come across as the traditional salesman type to me, neither super nice, playing it safe type. The vibe was just genuine and clear interest in doing business.
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manoftaste
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And then there is also the fact that there is no intentional built-in obsolescence in the design of LR3/4.
A built-in obsolescence is a design practice to make the vehicle look outdated after two or three years of its introduction so you can be made to feel forced to want the next year model again. And the leasing model works quite well with this way of doing automative business. But it stops innovation dead in its tracks, until and unless a Tesla type of innovation splashes on the scene forcing the big fat luxury/prestige brands to get off their couches again and are forced to follow.
LR never followed this practice in the past. Thats why their designs used to stay modern by only design optimizations over the years instead of short cycle full redesigns. Thats why disco series II still looks quite great today, and what an amazing job the designers did to bring it into the the modern world via LR3 with its clean, no nonsense surfaces. And what an amazing job they could have done to bring LR4 current via D5, but unfortunately LR suits' interference in the design/engineering process resulted in the D5 as we see it today.
Built-in obsolescence is sadly also an intentional practice while designing parts and their longevity, and that serves the dealerships' service business quite well too.
On the engineering side of things, land cruiser has stayed away from this practice for a very long time, hence its 25 years minimum service duty cycle. And thats why a land cruiser sells for much more over on the other side of this now-small world. Toyota could not care less about the sales of their land cruiser here in NA and thats why you pay extra premium here for it. For them its market is not here.
A built-in obsolescence is a design practice to make the vehicle look outdated after two or three years of its introduction so you can be made to feel forced to want the next year model again. And the leasing model works quite well with this way of doing automative business. But it stops innovation dead in its tracks, until and unless a Tesla type of innovation splashes on the scene forcing the big fat luxury/prestige brands to get off their couches again and are forced to follow.
LR never followed this practice in the past. Thats why their designs used to stay modern by only design optimizations over the years instead of short cycle full redesigns. Thats why disco series II still looks quite great today, and what an amazing job the designers did to bring it into the the modern world via LR3 with its clean, no nonsense surfaces. And what an amazing job they could have done to bring LR4 current via D5, but unfortunately LR suits' interference in the design/engineering process resulted in the D5 as we see it today.
Built-in obsolescence is sadly also an intentional practice while designing parts and their longevity, and that serves the dealerships' service business quite well too.
On the engineering side of things, land cruiser has stayed away from this practice for a very long time, hence its 25 years minimum service duty cycle. And thats why a land cruiser sells for much more over on the other side of this now-small world. Toyota could not care less about the sales of their land cruiser here in NA and thats why you pay extra premium here for it. For them its market is not here.
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AdventureTim
Full Access Member
No disagreement at all about the LR4 being the last of its breed. I almost pulled the trigger on an almost new LC200, but just couldn't get to the point of liking the thing. The LR4 has orders of magnitude more refinement than the Toyota, and from reading the IH8MUD forums, they're also not immune from problems and repair costs seem to be similar to those for the LR. I think part of the reason Toyota has retained their reliability is through a lack of innovation, and just mild evolution of existing products. I was blown away when opening the door of the 200 to see a little push-button "door is closed" switch in plain view - I haven't owned a car in the last 15 years that had that old school technology! The product design of the 200's trunk is archaic compared to the LR4.
I have no intentions of getting rid of my LR4, but the dealerships up here in Washington certainly have a different point of view to what some of you have experienced. They keep sending me mail trying to convince me to switch in to a D5, offering a $22.5k trade for my 60k mile 2015 HSE Lux with HD pack.
I have no intentions of getting rid of my LR4, but the dealerships up here in Washington certainly have a different point of view to what some of you have experienced. They keep sending me mail trying to convince me to switch in to a D5, offering a $22.5k trade for my 60k mile 2015 HSE Lux with HD pack.
