Disco 5 hit with the ugly stick

[Houm_WA]

...this was a fun, albeit sad, thread to read. There is a new D5 in the parking lot at work. I've walked by it slowly a few times. Like others I've wanted to like it. I can't. I do think Lucky8 is doing some stuff that will make it better. If we can mount some sliders and brush bars and roof accessories to break up that ugly profile, it might have a puncher's chance of being accepted. Not sure what to do about the back though. Also...not having a frame is hard for me to get over.

Angela, you said what I've felt for a while when you mentioned you are "...continuing to shop for a now non-existing replacement."

I don't feel that there is anything on the market quite like the LR3/4. Nothing. Tons of utility and street appeal while being able to straight ball out on the trail! I think the LR3/4 would kick the hell out of the G-Wagen on the trail. Okay maybe not brutalize it, but best it. The G-Wagen has that front locker, sure, but how often does anyone really need a front locker? The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon can out-duel an LR3/4 on a trail, but would anyone want to drive one farther than about 200 miles? What else can it do? I've slept in the back of my LR3, comfortably, several times.

There is nothing like it. Never was before and never will be again. THAT...THAT, is why I plan on keeping mine forever. I only put about 3000 Miles/year on it these days, and spend (voluntarily) about $1000 a year to maintain it. Sitting at 126,000 Miles on the odo currently, it will outlast me, then my kids will drive "Dad's old Rover." ...and LR can do whatever it wants, as long as they keep making spares for the old models.

 

[BrandonM7]

I finally saw one in the flesh over the weekend. Holy ****, I thought it was bad in pictures. It is painfully ugly - I wouldn't even vaguely entertain the idea of buying one, no matter how many cool features the interior may have. I guess my next ride will either be a RRS or I'll be moving back into a truck.

 

[BrandonM7]

...this was a fun, albeit sad, thread to read. There is a new D5 in the parking lot at work. I've walked by it slowly a few times. Like others I've wanted to like it. I can't. I do think Lucky8 is doing some stuff that will make it better. If we can mount some sliders and brush bars and roof accessories to break up that ugly profile, it might have a puncher's chance of being accepted. Not sure what to do about the back though. Also...not having a frame is hard for me to get over.

Angela, you said what I've felt for a while when you mentioned you are "...continuing to shop for a now non-existing replacement."

I don't feel that there is anything on the market quite like the LR3/4. Nothing. Tons of utility and street appeal while being able to straight ball out on the trail! I think the LR3/4 would kick the hell out of the G-Wagen on the trail. Okay maybe not brutalize it, but best it. The G-Wagen has that front locker, sure, but how often does anyone really need a front locker? The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon can out-duel an LR3/4 on a trail, but would anyone want to drive one farther than about 200 miles? What else can it do? I've slept in the back of my LR3, comfortably, several times.

There is nothing like it. Never was before and never will be again. THAT...THAT, is why I plan on keeping mine forever. I only put about 3000 Miles/year on it these days, and spend (voluntarily) about $1000 a year to maintain it. Sitting at 126,000 Miles on the odo currently, it will outlast me, then my kids will drive "Dad's old Rover." ...and LR can do whatever it wants, as long as they keep making spares for the old models.

I don't think the LR3/LR4 would stand a chance off-road against a G. Regarding front locker - probably never need one in something as nice/expensive as a LR3/LR4 or modern US G, but in real wheeling it's even more important than the rear. The rear has weight shifted to it when climbing the rocks so you can get good traction with both a great deal of the time - the front frequently has one wheel just waving in the air, so having the other able to pull itself up and over a rock or ledge is very often the difference between making it and winching it.

 

[COangela]

Wow, I honestly thought you had made a mistake when you said the HSE didn't have EAS. But sure enough, you have to get into the HSE Luxury trim package to get EAS. I didn't realize that until this moment.

Have *you* hugged your LR4 today??

Ha ha. Love this.

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[COangela]

I respectfully disagree.

Up until now, each redesign has always been evolutionary rather than a complete departure as an attempt now to cater to a completely different audience. And thats totally fine as we all know by now that Land Rover as a company is no longer in the business of designing purpose-built products targeting a certain lifestyle. A very distant example, Subaru, still is for that matter (only if they secured a good design lead).

Instead of designing, LR now is in the business of "styling" vehicles for volume sales. They are still forced to put R&D dollars into continuing developing sophisticated gadgetry like the Terrain Response, etc not because they really want to (as mommies could certainly do without all that), its only because they Have to as pretty much every other automaker in their competitions' list have now started to offer things like that. And also because LR is supposed to squeeze out even the last penny off their heritage, legacy, and now-former branding, otherwise there would not be anything left thats different from their competition. I mean, any automaker these days could hire talent/skills and have them write excellent all-wheel-drive algorithms if they needed to. Sadly, the days of real innovations (such as Terrain Response, cross-linked long-travel independent air suspension, IBF frame/chassis, etc.) are long gone at LR.

They want to generate cash via volume sales as its pretty clear by the direction and the statements coming out from their brass, however dumb and politically incorrect those statements maybe Such as this gem from Mr. McGovern defending his masterpiece, D5:

"Well, I could be quite glib about it. I’m a professional designer and they’re not..."

Ha. I mean, the arrogance of this man is simply unbelievable.

Well, Mr McGovern, you really are an idiot and amaze us. First, holding a position such as yours, you don't really make statements like the one above, publicly, even if you felt that way deep down in your heart.

Second, even if you are a professional designer, that does not automatically mean that every single piece of automotive product you design is going to be amazing, case in point, your latest creation.

Designs do not have to "change" just for the heck of it. Rather, they have to get better to deliver new features and to improve upon existing ones.

Amazes me that even today I get compliments, nods, and get asked: "What year model is this?" for a nearly 12 year old design of my LR4. And that is not because its an iconic design, its because it looks modern and current.

Mr. McGovern, as a "professional designer" in the automotive business, I am sure you have heard of the fact that sometimes, less is more

LR3/4' design was an excellent execution/solution to the problem of how to make an extremely functional and roomy box beautiful.

What an amazing opportunity they had to make the most unique SUV on the planet even better, both in terms of improving its design and functionalities. But they completely blew it, thanks to the shift in LR' philosophy driven by the economics rather than the quality of the product(s) itself driving the economics.

If all those millions that LR is spending now on those TV advertisements were directed toward educating and training their dealerships' sales departments about what they are actually selling, sales figures might have been different.

I mean, really, like how many models in the lineup an LR sales guide really has to thoroughly know about? Four or five? If all I did was sold five models and if thats how I made my living, I'd try to educate and know everything that there was to know about those five cars as much as I could for better sales and sales experience (vs concentrating merely on selling tactics.) And we all know how familiar and educated the LR sales guides are about their own cars.

I mean, fifteen minutes. Thats all I ask for. You give me just fifteen minutes with a family who has just walked into the showroom looking for a family SUV and I could sell them on an LR4 over anything else thats out there, even today, by comparing safety for them/their kids, features/functionality, usability, ride quality, unique features and their benefits, inspiring/active lifestyle (perhaps cleverly and discreetly linking it with the health benefits for them and their kids by referring to myself/relative/friend etc.)

And I have done just that once when I was hanging out at a dealership showroom while my car was being serviced. The sales guide there, who himself of course did not know much about LR4, was more than happy to have me talk to them. During my conversation with them, I conveyed to the interested couple about the safety benefits of the unique and world' only Integrated-Body Frame design of LR4 among other related advantages, etc. And I later found out that they ended up buying a '16 LR4.

But I guess that marvel of "professionalism" in the automative design industry, that signature slanted C pillar of D5, has taken the industry by storm, ha. Congratulations, Mr McGovern. Congratulations for raising the bar and achieving new heights and standards in the world of automotive design. Please don't forget to have the pictures of that slanted C pillar from various angles as an opener in your personal portfolio.

Last week, while I was having a coffee at a local shop, noticed a D5 in gray passing by me, pulling over and then making a turn into a parking lot across the street from me, and I got to witness that C pillar again with its equally and faithfully complimenting rear end in a 3/4 view, ha, and I thought to myself:

Man... I mean, I've really kinda been wanting to like it despite all those lost functionalities (loss of fold-flat seating for for cargo area, higher belt line resulting in loss of overall visibility, loss of the command driving seat position, loss/reduction in stadium seating, drastic increase in overall height as you open the rear cargo door for full access with the fear of it hitting the low ceiling in a parking lot, etc.) but I can't help it at all I don't think this thing will ever grow on me

Even hung around the SVX/Offroad version for a while at the LA auto show here a few weeks ago, looking at it from different angles in the hopes that I may develop some love for it, but except maybe the front end, the damn thing is just so damn ugly overall, specially for that price tag

"If all those millions that LR is spending now on those TV advertisements were directed toward educating and training their dealerships' sales departments about what they are actually selling, sales figures might have been different."

So many times I've been walking around in the showroom while my LR3 was getting serviced and was approached by a salesman trying to give me the 'low-down' on the vehicle in front of me. So many times I've known at least twice as much as they did about the brand and the vehicles stats. That's happening more and more now with new technology in the cars and most dealerships combining with the Jaguar dealership down the street. (I actually had a GM tell me he calls the blind spot monitor detection the "the blinky-bob". I'm going to pretend it wasn't also because I was a woman.)
And as many times as it's happened I've been just as disappointed to learn they've never driven an off road course with a Rover. Never actually realized the gold that lied just beneath the surface. Instead of 35 page booklets on the LR4 or 43 page for the RRS, just send your sales personnel on a 2 day off-roading adventure and one day your of the factory assembly line. Tell me they won't be your best advertising campaign after that! Walking into a dealership where everyone there is passionate and truly in love with the vehicles their selling/working on is a powerful enough elixir to sell vehicles on the spot.

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[COangela]

For most of us LR4 owners, the cost of repairs is currently lower than the cost of new D5 payments. I'd rather pay for repairs on an LR4 I really enjoy rather than make payments on a new $75K D5 that "I can live with".

As for the previous question, I test drove the Q7 and D5 back-to-back 3 times. Q7 wins if you don't need off road capability or a spare tire. Audi SCV6 is just smoother, more responsive and sounds happy all the time. Audi technology is years ahead of LR. Q7 has excellent rear seat leg room and comfort but a useless third row. My kids hated the sunken rear seats in the D5 compared to the stadium seating in the LR4.

Agreed with this in so very many ways. We've done extensive research (dare I say exhaustive) over the last year and a half for a new SUV to replace a '08 LR3. We LOVED the technology in the Q7. Hated the styling and lack of off road capability. Liked the size of the comparable Volvo, hated the transmission. Liked the off road ability of the Grand Cherokee Trail Hawk, hated the tech and the cargo area was less than desirable. VW, Ford, X5 (we own a BMW hatchback we ate absolutely gaga over; the tech is fantastic!), Cayenne, even Cadillac...none of them felt as good as the LR3. It's just so damn perfect. We've decided to try to aftermarket some of the tech we're missing and make it amazing.
(Wish us luck- lol).

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[COangela]

Of course here in California so many brand new RR's are driven by soccer moms whose only off-road experience is running over curbs while looking at their phone. Never ceases to amaze me that with a 130K vehicle that has every hands free gimmick available they still have to hold their phone to their ears. Too stupid to learn how to use hands free I suppose.

I'm ******* myself with laughter.

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[Houm_WA]

I don't think the LR3/LR4 would stand a chance off-road against a G. Regarding front locker - probably never need one in something as nice/expensive as a LR3/LR4 or modern US G, but in real wheeling it's even more important than the rear. The rear has weight shifted to it when climbing the rocks so you can get good traction with both a great deal of the time - the front frequently has one wheel just waving in the air, so having the other able to pull itself up and over a rock or ledge is very often the difference between making it and winching it.

My point about the front locker is that generally when climbing something the weight of the vehicle is over the rear wheels so a rear locker is way more important than the front. Further minimizing the need for a front locker is 4ETC. It would still be an advantage, I will not argue that, but it's not as big an advantage as people think.

I bring up the front locker because to me that is the ONLY thing the G has that the LR3 doesn't. If we want to bench-wheel the two, let's do it!

• Angles (LR3 app, dep, b/o: 37.2, 29.6, 27.9 G: 30, 30, 24, another source says 36, 27, 21)
  
• crawl ratio: LR3 45.57, G: 34:1
  
• wheel travel: LR3: 10" front, 13" rear, G: 3.5" front, 9.2" rear
  
• ground clearance: LR3: 11.5" (Extended Height), G: 8.3"
  
• slope capability: LR3: 45d, G: 38.7d (another source says 45d)
  
• side slope capability: LR3: 35d, G: 28d

LR3 wins all of these. So...what's that you were saying????

 

[magnumforc]

We seem to be a group without a home, like people without a country. Our loyalist attitudes have us squarely behind the LR3-LR4 and yet the people who are pushing the Disco seem to think we need to get on board with ugliness. Sadly, looking at the front of the new Range Rovers, there is a lack of frontal aggressiveness that we expect, something that says "I can do any damn thing I like and go anywhere in this baby" and replaced with "maybe I can go somewhere but still uncertain". Uograding to a RR requires you move beyond the RRS to the larger RR as the seats are not conducive to long range travel. And yet you still look like a yuppie or a soccer mom (this is California so you get to choose) behind the wheel.

Yes, there are vehicles with great prowess off road but how many can look as good as the LR4 while doing it. And carry the load and passengers at the same time? While we have kept our Nara Bronze LR4 HSE I lament ever selling the Firenze Red HSE LUX. Like someone once said..."They don't make them like that anymore."

 

[cperez]

We seem to be a group without a home, like people without a country.

That's how I was thinking of it too. LR3/4 owners are joining the cult of diehard loyalists; the Druid priests of past Land Rover models (Series, RR Classic, P38, D1/2, L322, and the rest).

I'm actually OK with that and in fact it adds even more mystique to our rides of choice.