Project Dark Knight Rising

[Tapps33]

Ok, today's progress...or rather for the last 2 days....sorry, yesterday was a LONG day and I didn't have it in me to post last night.

Last night I set the main studs with Loctite thread locker red on the in block portion of the stud, then used ARP ultra lube on the washers/nuts to torque them to 60lb-ft. (in 3 increments...30lb-ft, then 45lb-ft, then finally 60 lb-ft). As for the main studs, the part numbers I used are: ARP M10 AM4.000-1LB. (these are ARP 2000 spec material). Jury is still out as to whether I'll have to grind the block girdle a little. Others who have made the swap to main studs have had to grind the girdle a little to ensure the main studs don't interfere with the girdle.

After the main studs, I torqued the shoulder and then external side main bolts . The "shoulder" bolts are ARP kit 661-1014 (24 lb-ft torque spec) and the external side main cap bolts were ARP kit 661-1007 (24 lb-ft torque spec). A piece of advice, DON'T LOSE THE EXTERNAL WASHERS! They are rubber embedded steel washers to ensure no oil leaking out of the block. I haven't been able to source new ones, so I had to re-use the old ones.

Today I torqued my rod bolts to 60 lb-ft in the same 3 step increment. The road bolt kit is: 201-6001. It's actually for a BMW 4.0L S65 engine...but they are a perfect match for the stock bolts and they're ARP CA 625+ material....so significantly stronger than stock.

Shifting gears, I went back to my transmission because the new output shaft bushing I ordered came in! I was able to get it into the output shaft nicely, and then began the re-assembly of the C and E clutch hub assemblies. Everything seems to be to spec thus far, but all I can do is take it one step at a time.

I'll do better and get some more pics tomorrow...but in truth, without the videos from @curmudgeontransmission and Gary Ferraro...and the ZF manual for additional pictures, instructions and tolerance specs, I'd be up a creek with this one! I haven't taken many pics because I've been too busy watching and rewatching their videos, then reading the manual, then looking at the refresh kit, then the videos, then the manual....and well, you get the idea.

Thankfully, I already did the Sonnax Zip kit to the mechatronic for this LR4, and since I'll have to swap them for everything to work nicely, I don't have to mess with the mechatronic at all. Hopefully, the LR4 mechatronic will work properly in the RRS SC transmission. (In theory the transmissions are identical except for one extra spray in the SC version...supposedly....time will tell)

Tomorrow's goals are to get the rest of the transmission back together, and then get the girdle on and the head studs set....possibly bolt the heads down. We'll just have to see how much time I actually have tomorrow.

 

[Tapps33]

Ok, so today wasn't 100% as productive as I'd hoped, but it was pretty decent none the less.

First I messed with the transmission. Long story short, I think I damaged the B Clutch piston assemble when I took it apart. I tried too get it back together and messed it up even more. So, eBay to the rescue! And I have an authentic ZF 6HP28 B clutch drum loaded and ready to go! This time I won't take it apart, cause in reality, there's only 3 o-ring's that need to be replaced. Unfortunately when I consult the manual, it looks like the press tool I have isn't quite large enough to seat and press down on the bellvelle plate appropriately to compress the piston enough to reveal the snap ring recesses. To add insult to injury, the cheap-o-matic press I ordered from Amazon doesn't have a large enough opening to slide the drum shaft inbetween is the "adjustable" press wouldn't work either. (SMH).

Luckily though, the rest seemed to go back together nicely. Although there was a lot of back and forth between videos and manuals and diagrams to ensure I didn't miss anything.

On a slightly side topic, I figured out the difference between the NA and SC transmissions....or at least this is according to a friend who took them both apart side by side:

the 4 sprag vs the 3 sprag planet:

4 sprag planet:

the 3 sprag planet:

The piece of this puzzle I don't know about is whether the NA mechatronic in the SC transmission is going to have any line pressure issues due to the difference. Hopefully the adaptive values will be able to compensate for any differences.

 

[Tapps33]

Sorry, it only lets me post 5 pics at a time, so I have to break my posts up a little bit.

After I hit the stopping point with the transmission....cause the B clutch goes into the case next...and well...I don't exactly have one yet...I shifted back to the engine.

The engine tried my patience and forced me into an existential crisis. Thankfully I overcame the issue and have moved on...mainly because I don't want to buy a 3rd of every part I've already bought....twice!!

What am I talking about? Simple, the windage tray as the LR manual refers to it.

This is where I stopped last night. Everything was good, torqued to spec...yay! If you look at where the main stud are on both the front and rear main cap, it was close enough I decided to do a little grinding to ensure clearance.

And just like that, PRESTO!! everything fits!

Now, for those of you who are eagle eyed AJ133 builders, you may have noticed the HP fuel pump cam sprocket looks a little funny....and that's because it does! This engine was one of the original 6.35mm timing gear engines. While I actually prefer the 6.35mm chains to the update 8mm style, it's virtually impossible to get any 6.35mm parts, so, 8mm swap here we come! Luckily, the oil pump sprocket was cheap, and you can buy that as a lone part in some timing chain kits. The Fuel pump cam sprocket is a whole different story. I looked everywhere and couldn't find it...I even called an LR dealership and they said it wasn't sold by itself. So, yet again I went back to eBay for support and bought a used windage tray that have the fuel pump cam still attached.

Here's where the existential crisis occurred. When I removed the fuel cam from the existing windage tray, I discovered the center "bushing" space for the fuel cam was boogered up...much like the spun bearing. Obviously, I didn't want to re-use the windage tray as I'm worried about follow on deterioration of the cam journal and potential fuel cam failure. NO WORRIES, I have another tray! BUUUUUUUUUUUT......it's a newer style and isn't as long as the old style. The newer style doesn't bolt to the rear main cap.

The question I struggled with is whether this tray was ever installed in an SC engine, or if it was strictly a NA V8 thing? Long story short, I think the answer is LR went to this windage tray when they started producing the SCV6. Thankfully though, it's the same tray for the SCV6 and SCV8. So, after wrestling with the, "will it be strong enough....will the rear main cap flex....is the galling really that bad? I decided it'll work just fine and I've known a couple of guys running Jag's that have used this tray and their cars are still doing great!

For those of you wondering, here's a side by side of the different sprockets:

Oh, and this is the "messed up" journal:

Oh yeah, and before I forget, here's the disclaimer: I am not the definitive source for any of this information. Check your manuals and all the appropriate documentation for all specific values, to include torque specs, transmission specs etc... And feel free to call me out if you see me make a glaring mistake! I'd rather have someone catch it and let me know than miss it and blow up the engine!

One final disclaimer; Please excuse the messy garage. I'm prepping for a move and have pulled all the spare junk I normally pack and take with me and am getting ready to donate it. Unfortunately because I move every couple of years, it's not all in one place...now it's in a few piles on the ground. Sometime soon it's all going to get donated or chucked. I can't keep bringing it with me, especially since I'm not sure if I'll even have a garage or shop for the next 2-3 years.....gulp....I may die.

 

[Tapps33]

Well, another day or two, and honestly not too much accomplished. But I did manage to get my mother-in-law moved from one facility to another, and that's almost bigger than the engine....almost.

Thankfully, when I got home last night, the new B clutch drum....actually it was the B, A and E drums all assembled and ready to install...if I wanted to install used parts. My A and E drums were final and are pictured above. (it's the pic with the connected drums and shafts sticking out of both sides....laying on it's side).

The tricky drum was the B drum...if you watch the videos I posted, @curmudgeontransmission never shows you how to take the drums apart...just the before and after shots. Then, he shows you how they go back together in the recase video, but never how to actually work it on the press. No disrespect to him, cause without his videos I may have not attempted this rebuild.

A few lessons learned....

1. I tried using the cheap-o-matic press from amazon and it didn't really work. I had my adapt-a-case spring compressor for my old dodge 48re building days and it worked for all but 1 of the drums...including the B drum. HOWEVER!!!! Lesson learned, when you compress the bellvelle plate in this drum, you can over-compress it, and it'll jam the "top" retaining snap ring. FYI, there are 2 snap rings for this assembly, one on top of the bellvelle plate, and one underneath it.

You can kinda see in the pic below, the lower snap ring sits in a recess in the center shaft of the drum. The "upper" snap ring sits in the recess of the "fingers" of the small balance piston...with a slight catch. The retaining ring for the bellvelle plate has a lip to it. It sits on top of the bellvelle spring fingers and has a lip to it that holds the snap ring in the grooves in the piston fingers. And this is where I learned a hard lesson...ok, one of the two places. I found out that you can't over compress the bellvelle plate or it binds and you can't get the snap ring over the lip in the retaining ring and into the groove. Not gonna lie, I booogered mine up so bad I had to find a new one on eBay.

This is the lower snap ring the sits that sits in the groove in the drum shaft:

And here's where I learned lesson number 2 the hard way. the lower piston DOESN'T compress!!!!! Cause if you do, you break the little feet off the balance piston and have to buy a new one!!!!

It's hard to see in this pic, but those little tabs probably stuck out about another mm or 2 which kept the pistons from settling lower on the shaft. Will it really make a difference? I have no idea, but I didn't want to take the chance.

The solution to the issue of removing the lower snap ring is to start with the small snap ring pliers, then use a flat head screw driver as a "shim" to hold the snap ring opening a little, then get the BIG snap ring pliers and it'll have enough throw to expand the ring enough to get it off the shaft while staying inside the piston fingers.

So, back to my progress:

After I got the eBay drum in, I reluctantly took it apart, because I realized the brand new bushings I installed on the "original" B drum couldn't be transferred without destroying them. So, I took the original apart, transferred my new o-rings to the pistons I had just purchased and put it all back in the original drum. BOOM! problem solved!

Then the B clutch went into the trans case, followed by the hub assembly (A and E clutch drums, input and intermediate shafts), then the pump assembly....new washers on the pump screws and everything was torqued to spec.

Transmission complete....until I pull the trans out of my LR4, then I'll transfer the mechatronic and new style trans pan to this transmission. Seems a bit of a waste to throw those away. I put them on when re-doing the heads...everything's brand new, but never cranked the engine.

 

[Tapps33]

In other events, while I wait for my block inserts to arrive, cause my machinist wanted to wait to install them, and I sorta used them on the NA engine during the head repair project.

Soooo....I decided to start getting the heads in order. My machinist installed the new exhaust valves, and reworked all the valves and valve seats.

Fun fact, the NA intake valves are significantly shorter than the SC valves. This is due to the variable valve lift system. The SC engine doesn't have variable lift...so both cams look like regular cams...no triple lobe craziness!

Because I waited so long to reassemble everything I've had a little bit of surface rust build up on most of the cast iron parts...of which the camshafts are...so before I start checking the cam buckets, I had to address the state of my parts.

Thankfully, all the rust is barely on the surface, so a little work with a light weight wire wheel and...

Clearly you can see the difference. I've checked the cams, and there's no pitting or breaking down of the cams. Clearly, the humidity here in Memphis got to them.

And, all done:

Well, before I call it a night tonight, here's another fun fact...and one I really just learned about this engine. I'm slightly embarrassed to admit I've never really paid attention to this, but when the engine is 100% in timing alignment, it's not actually at TDC!!!! It's 45 degrees beyond TDC. Which makes sense because I couldn't figure out why, when I lined the crank position marks up and the key was at the 6 o'clock position, the #1 piston had already moved down in the cylinder about 1" or so.

This drove me nuts and I kept trying to figure out why, then I re-read the service manual, and it states that the timing marks all line up at 45 degrees after TDC because that allows you to rotate the cam shafts without any issues. AKA, you won't smack a valve into a piston if all the timing marks are lined up....especially for the crank.

Here are the crank alignment marks:

Also, the key way should be at the 6 o'clock position.

Ok, that's all for today. Probably gonna be a little quiet for a couple days as I'm on travel, but perhaps Tuesday I'll get a little done before traveling again for the weekend.