Dealer Price Gouging

[swmrdrn]

The fact that even Castrol Edge Professional OEM 5W-20 no longer claims that it meets the "925" standard, but that it now meets 945, makes me think that Land Rover is just late - as always - in updating its owners manuals with up-to-date information. AFAIK, there is no oil out there anymore, neither Castrol Professional, nor Mobil, nor any other brand, claiming to meet the 925 standard anymore. That standard is obsolete. We'll see what John from LRNA has to say, although I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, lol.

I did a little more digging and found this on Castrol's website. It looks like they make TWO different Edge Professional 5w-20 oils.

One is called Edge Professional 5w-20 and meets the 945 standard as seen on page to of this pdf:

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...loads/p,q/EDGE_Professional_PDS_July_2012.pdf

The other is called Edge Professional OE 5w-20 and meets the 925 standard as seen on page two of this pdf.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b.../EDGE_Professional_European_PDS_July_2012.pdf

Notice that the Edge OE says Jag and Land Rover on it and the back has the 925 but not the 945....

 

[swmrdrn]

and the back of the bottle purchased today from my local Jag dealer.

 

[PaulLR3]

I agree with umbertob, the 945 standard replaced 925. Oil manufacturers may not change label text that often, plus who knows how much inventory they have already produced that is packed, labeled and stored in warehouses.

If you are just concerned about your engine warranty, then go with the 925 oil from the dealer every 15K miles. This also applies if you have a lease LR4 and plan to turn it in when the lease is over.

But I have to think that those us changing it every 7500 miles with Mobil One 5W-20 are doing more to actually protect the engine long-term. And I plan to keep my 2013 LR4 long-term.

 

[suvowner]

you should contact and make a formal complaint with your states attorney generals office consumer protection division, at least it will be on record and documented the mere act of the ag office making an inquiry might make them change there tune significantly

I purchase a MiniVac and will do the oil change this weekend. My several call to LRNA were a joke. I just emailed this off to the supervisor that I spoke with a few days ago.

John,

Please excuse my slow reply but I have been very busy at work. Attached is the estimate that Peter Benavidez from Land Rover Pasadena gave me. I understand that LRNA customer service does not have in-house support for technical questions but rather relies on their dealers. This creates a conflict of interest when a customer such as myself asserts that a dealer is unfairly charging for services. How can LRNA investigate a complaint about labor time by asking the Dealer how much time it should take and then takes them at their word? Clearly this doesn't work to resolve an issue between a customer and a dealer. Case in point is the $191.51 labor charge to change a cabin/pollen air filter. If Pasadena Rover's labor rate is $140 dollars then they are estimating that this service takes 1.37 hours to preform. Please see the video below on how to change the cabin filter.

Pollen Filter Replacement: Instructions for LR3 & Range Rover Sport - YouTube

You will notice that the video is 81 seconds long. I changed the filter in under 90 seconds myself. For Land Rover Pasadena to charge an 1 hour and 22 minutes of labor to do this is fraud. They know it and now you know it as well and frankly the dealer's credibility is ruined.

Secondly I would like to point out that the 5L Jag sourced V8 in the LR4 requires oil that is meets Ford's wss-m2c925-a certification. In the US the only oil that meets this certification is Castrol Edge Professional 5w-20 (if you or LRNA can find a second oil then please let me know). This is the ONLY oil that meets the standards required by LRNA to maintain the car's warranty. Castrol has even added a dye that shows up under UV light to make sure that the Land Rover can identify that this is the only oil used in the engine. I'm fine with the fact that the motor needs a special oil but Castrol only sells this oil to new car dealerships. As such, it is not available from independent auto parts stores. Interestingly Pasadena Rover refused to sell the oil to me and said that I had to pay their dealership to do the oil change. You and I both know that it is illegal for manufactures to require that dealership's must preform basic services to maintain a vehicle warranty. Perhaps you should read this: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance To me it looks like Land Rover is attempting to circumvent the law.

I have owned cars from Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz and I have never been treated like this by any other dealership. This is insulting, unethical and borderline illegal. Please let me know what actions LRNA takes on this issue.

 

[mbw]

I love that people on these forums are detail oriented and actually care about 925 vs 945, etc... AWESOME!

I think just using any decent oil and changing it at reasonable intervals is going to be plenty. I doubt these engines are that picky, but I can see it from the warranty/legal aspect also.

I hope you get somewhere on this, but if the dealer is horrible im not sure its very possible to 'fix' them. So far I have had great luck with the Iowa dealer. I have even emailed back and forth with the LR tech and he has send wiring diagrams and all sorts of stuff as I work on projects. Wants to get together and work on his own disco.. that's crazy!

 

[swmrdrn]

I finally pinned them down on the oil topic. It wasn't easy but here is the reply.

Dear Mr. Johnson:

Case Number: 7932704

As per your request, I did further research into your inquiry regarding a possible list of approved oils for your vehicle. After consulting with our technical experts, I have been advised that Land Rover does not have or offer a list of alternate oils that can be used with our vehicles. As I previously advised, we only recommend the Castrol with the 5w20 grade for your 2012 LR4, which can be purchased at the retailer.

If you have any further technical questions, you can certainly consult with any of our authorized retailers by phone, and they should be able to assist you. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Lynn Kubicki
Customer Relationship Center Case Specialist

 

[swmrdrn]

They also agreed that there was a discrepancy on the cabin filter labor charge. Funny because the SA was convinced that it was 1.5 hours of work. Here is the email below.

Dear Mr. Johnson:

Case Number:7932704

As per our conversation, there was a discrepancy on your original estimate for the cabin filter maintenance charge. Please see the attachment with the revised estimate from the retailer on this charge.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,

Lynn Kubicki
Customer Relationship Center Case Specialist

 

[mbw]

Wow, they really don't want to go out of their way to say or do anything do they?

That has been my experience with them also. It's almost like they are just a bunch of low paid phone monkeys who spit up whatever the lawyers told them to say. Pretty useless.

They don't even mention anything about the oil spec and that any other oil following the spec should be fine. They don't even try to be helpful or human, just sales/legal ********.

 

[horns]

maintenance games

When I purchased my LR4, I sort of expected a certain amount of this - that is, overpriced basic services such as oil changes, etc... I just had my 2 yr service to the tune of $550. When people have 60K+ to purchase a land rover, I think the dealer knows they can get away with this (and they do get away with it). My question is with the cheaper models; be it Evoque or LR2, are they still able to get away with the maintenance game? These engineered kickbacks to the dealers will ultimately give way with time. Youtube and sites such as this one will be the equalizer. What engineer designs an engine that you have to vacuum the oil out of? I recently could not find antifreeze that would comply with recs. Why would they recommend something that is n longer sold in the US? - these games will end at some point. Will I still be a customer at that time? the LR 4 sure is more fun to drive than any of the other Detroit dogs I have owned in the past.

 

[mbw]

When I purchased my LR4, I sort of expected a certain amount of this - that is, overpriced basic services such as oil changes, etc... I just had my 2 yr service to the tune of $550. When people have 60K+ to purchase a land rover, I think the dealer knows they can get away with this (and they do get away with it). My question is with the cheaper models; be it Evoque or LR2, are they still able to get away with the maintenance game? These engineered kickbacks to the dealers will ultimately give way with time. Youtube and sites such as this one will be the equalizer. What engineer designs an engine that you have to vacuum the oil out of? I recently could not find antifreeze that would comply with recs. Why would they recommend something that is n longer sold in the US? - these games will end at some point. Will I still be a customer at that time? the LR 4 sure is more fun to drive than any of the other Detroit dogs I have owned in the past.

I pretty much agree with what you said, but I do want to point out that the oil sump does have a drain plug and you can do a traditional oil change if you want, but the plug is not as easy to get to because of the shields and all the stuff in the way.