Dealer Price Gouging

[94speedster]

Total BS, and unfortunately the norm...

"Factory Land Rover" oil filters seem to range in cost from $48-68 (based on dealer). Buying the same filter from Jaguar (LR4 engine is also in the 5 liter XF) the cost is under $30. Buying OEM aftermarket is under $20. HUGE mark-up.

Invest the $100 in a Mityvac and do your own easy oil & filter changes. Honestly, it only takes 20 minutes. Also do you own brake pad and rotor changes and you will save serious money. (Several DIYs on this board alone).

And let your dealer have it with Land Rover during their "customer survey"...

Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me...

-B

 

[mbw]

I'm having my 15k mile freebie service done next week. I will have just passed 15k miles also (on my 2013).

After than I may start DIY everything. I always did with my infiniti, but it didnt need a vacuum to do the oil. Sounds like a pain to me. The filters are a no brainer, dont pay the dealer for that. Also, brakes are much easier to do than people think. Especially if you dont mess up your rotors and get the pads changed early enough not to need to.

 

[umbertob]

Try replacing filter and vacuuming motor oil out of the top of the engine once, and you'll never want to touch a drain plug under the sump again, trust me (although the LR4 still gives you that option.) The suction method is faster, and way cleaner.

Outside of warranty or recall work, I've been avoiding dealers like the plague for years, never once regretted it. As long as you find a good indy shop nearby, at the very least you'll feel smarter.

 

[swmrdrn]

LRNA Email

I purchase a MiniVac and will do the oil change this weekend. My several call to LRNA were a joke. I just emailed this off to the supervisor that I spoke with a few days ago.

John,

Please excuse my slow reply but I have been very busy at work. Attached is the estimate that Peter Benavidez from Land Rover Pasadena gave me. I understand that LRNA customer service does not have in-house support for technical questions but rather relies on their dealers. This creates a conflict of interest when a customer such as myself asserts that a dealer is unfairly charging for services. How can LRNA investigate a complaint about labor time by asking the Dealer how much time it should take and then takes them at their word? Clearly this doesn't work to resolve an issue between a customer and a dealer. Case in point is the $191.51 labor charge to change a cabin/pollen air filter. If Pasadena Rover's labor rate is $140 dollars then they are estimating that this service takes 1.37 hours to preform. Please see the video below on how to change the cabin filter.

Pollen Filter Replacement: Instructions for LR3 & Range Rover Sport - YouTube

You will notice that the video is 81 seconds long. I changed the filter in under 90 seconds myself. For Land Rover Pasadena to charge an 1 hour and 22 minutes of labor to do this is fraud. They know it and now you know it as well and frankly the dealer's credibility is ruined.

Secondly I would like to point out that the 5L Jag sourced V8 in the LR4 requires oil that is meets Ford's wss-m2c925-a certification. In the US the only oil that meets this certification is Castrol Edge Professional 5w-20 (if you or LRNA can find a second oil then please let me know). This is the ONLY oil that meets the standards required by LRNA to maintain the car's warranty. Castrol has even added a dye that shows up under UV light to make sure that the Land Rover can identify that this is the only oil used in the engine. I'm fine with the fact that the motor needs a special oil but Castrol only sells this oil to new car dealerships. As such, it is not available from independent auto parts stores. Interestingly Pasadena Rover refused to sell the oil to me and said that I had to pay their dealership to do the oil change. You and I both know that it is illegal for manufactures to require that dealership's must preform basic services to maintain a vehicle warranty. Perhaps you should read this: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance To me it looks like Land Rover is attempting to circumvent the law.

I have owned cars from Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz and I have never been treated like this by any other dealership. This is insulting, unethical and borderline illegal. Please let me know what actions LRNA takes on this issue.

 

[umbertob]

Secondly I would like to point out that the 5L Jag sourced V8 in the LR4 requires oil that is meets Ford's wss-m2c925-a certification.

Just FYI, Ford WSS-M2C945-A replaced the now superseded WSS-M2C925-A specs. An oil meeting or exceeding Ford WSS-M2C945-A specs should automatically be meeting or exceeding WSS-M2C925-A specs. There are several 5W-20 synthetic oils out there that meet those specs, Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge Titanium among others.

 

[94speedster]

Great post swmrdrn... I still seek out the "special" Castrol oil, but always do a price check at both the Rover & Jaguar dealers before buying... I find the Jaguar dealer to be cheaper on average by about 10-15%, and on top of that they give me an additional 15% shop discount (pays to be nice to the parts guys).

I also agree that Land Rover pricing seems to be the most extreme. i currently own 3 Porsche 911s, and though the Porsche dealer has offensive pricing - the Rover costs a re higher... I now enjoy doing 90% of my own maintenance.

One other thing that bugs me... The Land Rover "Topix" site for downloading manuals is really expensive!!! They charge for access literally by the hour.

Still love my rover - just hate the damn service business model!

-B

 

[swmrdrn]

Just FYI, Ford WSS-M2C945-A replaced the now superseded WSS-M2C925-A specs. An oil meeting or exceeding Ford WSS-M2C945-A specs should automatically be meeting or exceeding WSS-M2C925-A specs. There are several 5W-20 synthetic oils out there that meet those specs, Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge Titanium among others.

Not to doubt you but can you point me to information verifying that 945 replaces 925. I have been unable to find that online.

 

[umbertob]

Basically, good 'ole Mobil 1 used to meet Ford WSS-M2C925-A (ILSAC GF-4) for 5W-20 synthetic oils, the standard Land Rover wants you to meet or exceed, as shown on their spec sheet and bottles up to last year, I believe. Here is a non-updated page of Mobil 1 5W-20 from their online store: http://www.mobil1racingstore.com/mobil15w20.html

Ever since the new ILSAC specs were ratified (GF-5), Ford specs for SAE 5W-20 synthetic were also bumped up to the 945 standard. The latest bottles of Mobil 1 5W-20 motor oil now show the product meets or exceeds ILSAC GF-5 and Ford "945" specs: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.aspx

Thus, my deduction that an oil meeting or exceeding Ford 945 specs (such as Mobil 1 5W-20, which is the oil I swear by) also meets or exceeds the older 925 specs. I can't find a piece of paper from Ford stating so, however. There is also this long, looong thread on JustAnswer.com between a customer like you and me and a Ford Technician, claiming the same thing (925 is obsolete and replaced by 945): http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5dtom-ford-land-rover-lr4-does-wss-m2c945-a-spec-replace.html

PS: You will notice that even the "Dealer Only - Screw The Customer" oil recommended by Land Rover for our engines (Castrol Edge Professional 5W-20) no longer meets standard WSS-M2C925-A, but it does meet WSS-M2C945-A: http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9042837&contentId=7076438

 

[swmrdrn]

Basically, good 'ole Mobil 1 used to meet Ford WSS-M2C925-A (ILSAC GF-4) for 5W-20 synthetic oils, the standard Land Rover wants you to meet or exceed, as shown on their spec sheet and bottles up to last year, I believe. Here is a non-updated page of Mobil 1 5W-20 from their online store: http://www.mobil1racingstore.com/mobil15w20.html

Ever since the new ILSAC specs were ratified (GF-5), Ford specs for SAE 5W-20 synthetic were also bumped up to the 945 standard. The latest bottles of Mobil 1 5W-20 motor oil now show the product meets or exceeds ILSAC GF-5 and Ford "945" specs: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.aspx

Thus, my deduction that an oil meeting or exceeding Ford 945 specs (such as Mobil 1 5W-20, which is the oil I swear by) also meets or exceeds the older 925 specs. I can't find a piece of paper from Ford stating so, however. There is also this long, looong thread on JustAnswer.com between a customer like you and me and a Ford Technician, claiming the same thing (925 is obsolete and replaced by 945): http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5dtom-ford-land-rover-lr4-does-wss-m2c945-a-spec-replace.html

PS: You will notice that even the "Dealer Only - Screw The Customer" oil recommended by Land Rover for our engines (Castrol Edge Professional 5W-20) no longer meets standard WSS-M2C925-A, but it does meet WSS-M2C945-A: http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9042837&contentId=7076438

Again, not to doubt you and I'm not trying to be an ass I simply want to get to the bottom of this.... the Mobil1 page states:

"Mobil 1 5W-20 fully synthetic motor oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ILSAC GF-4 energy conserving viscosity that flows quickly during cold starts.
API SM/CF
ACEA A1/B1

It is suitable for use in the following applications:
Ford WSS-M2C930-A
Ford WSS-M2C925-A
Chrysler MS-6395"

I believe that "meets or exceeds" means that they have test results to prove the performance of the oil. "Suitable for use" would appear to mean they believe it would meet it but have not tested the oil to this standard. The Rover owners manual clearly states "Use only 5w-20 oil meeting specification Ford WSS-M2C925-A." The fact that the only oil that I can find that "meets" the 925 standard has a "dye" in to so that manufacturers can tell if that is in fact the oil in the motor leads me to be very careful.

Take a look at this thread from earlier this year.

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xf-xfr-x250-44/oil-83232/

At the top of page two Mike saying he is from Jaguar reiterates the that the oil must meet the "925" standard.

Finally I'm not convinced that 945 replaces 925. It that were the case then oils would only list the highest standard that they meet. I have a feeling that the 925 standard has something to do with an additive pack for emissions or fuel millage.

LRNA says that John is going to get back to me with an answer to my last email. I'll let you know what he has to say about this.

 

[umbertob]

The fact that even Castrol Edge Professional OEM 5W-20 no longer claims that it meets the "925" standard, but that it now meets 945, makes me think that Land Rover is just late - as always - in updating its owners manuals with up-to-date information. AFAIK, there is no oil out there anymore, neither Castrol Professional, nor Mobil, nor any other brand, claiming to meet the 925 standard anymore. That standard is obsolete. We'll see what John from LRNA has to say, although I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, lol.