LR4 5.0 Chain Guides actual problem?

[ryanjl]

The stretch is caused by the guides not properly applying tension to the chain, allowing the chain to slap around a little.

 

[NASdiesel]

The stretch is caused by the guides not properly applying tension to the chain, allowing the chain to slap around a little.

Or to eventually skip. ;-)

 

[mpinco]

The stretch is caused by the guides not properly applying tension to the chain, allowing the chain to slap around a little.

That is one factor but timing chain issues are not isolated to JLR. Seems to have become more prevalent with new oils, higher operating temps, tighter design tolerances and drain intervals.

 

[gsxr]

Timing chain stretch is caused by poor or low quality lubrication that wears the chain components. JLR is not the first manufacturer to have issues with the latest oil formulations and drain intervals.

This is correct. On the flip side, I've heard (anecdotally) that some older (80's-90's) Mercedes engines which had issues with chain stretch, had the chain stretch problem eliminated simply by using synthetic oil and changing at proper intervals. This was back when almost everyone used dino oil and synthetics were (more) expensive and mostly viewed as overpriced snake oil; but the stuff really does work - unless you don't change it of course. JLR specifies synthetic for our engines but as pointed out previously, the 15kmi OCI was only in USA or North America. OCI's were half that in the UK. Hmm....

 

[ktm525]

This is correct. On the flip side, I've heard (anecdotally) that some older (80's-90's) Mercedes engines which had issues with chain stretch, had the chain stretch problem eliminated simply by using synthetic oil and changing at proper intervals. This was back when almost everyone used dino oil and synthetics were (more) expensive and mostly viewed as overpriced snake oil; but the stuff really does work - unless you don't change it of course. JLR specifies synthetic for our engines but as pointed out previously, the 15kmi OCI was only in USA or North America. OCI's were half that in the UK. Hmm....

I can probably count the number of 5.0L LR4s (sorry Discovery 4s) sold in the UK on one hand..

 

[Steven Phillips]

You can add another one to the list. 2012 RRS N/A just got towed two hours away to Mid-Atlantic Rover in Columbia, MD. 69k miles...I was just starting to get the sound and decided to start researching the topic.

I'll post a before and after video to YouTube and post here when I get my truck back...but no one in my small town of Winchester VA would even touch it.

Nightmare trying to get LRNA to help. LRNA told me to call the dealer, dealer said any help had to be approved by LRNA, called them back and the not-very-nice lady at LRNA offered to open a case if I sent her documentation on all oil changes and brought the car in. I'm the third owner (I'm friends with the second) and had all the oil changes...except the first. Second owner bought the car with just over 16k miles....called the original dealer in Cary, NC and they had no service records for my VIN. Called LRNA back and apparently when they sell a car through a LR dealer all previous service records are "deleted". Smart on their part, but screwed me. I can't prove the first oil change ever happened.

Also -JLR changed(?) the oil specification sometime in the recent past. My owners manual states the Ford WSS M2C-925-A spec, which the the LM 5W-20 AA Special Tec I've been using carried if you look at the picture of the bottle on Amazon. I checked a bottle in my garage and that spec is no longer cited. The new LM oil that is approved for this engine meets STJLR.51.5122 and I can only find it at FCP Euro (and is a 0W-20). https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/0w20-special-tec-lr-5-liter-liqui-moly-lm20410 (Shout out to LM for helping me via email).

I would bet that since I didn't use dealer oil I'd be rejected for using a non-approved oil anyway, so I decided to take my $$$ to an independent Rover specialist and avoid the dealer.

Last data point - this car had 16k mile oil changes until I got it at 48k. I did my first at ~11k and after that have done every ~7k/12 months (I don't drive this car much). I also use Ceratec and LM Engine Flush at every change.

$4400 - replace the Tensioners, Rails/Blades, Chains, Cam Sprockets (so they're pulling the valve covers/injectors), new timing covers, and many gaskets and seals.

I called 10 places and I got a range of $3500 (just replacing the tensioners and blades) to $6000-$6700 (full job) to $10,000 (this was Loudon RoVA who I'll never call again). Dealer wanted $8500.

 

[NASdiesel]

All 5.0's have this problem. Even the Jag's. Sorry to hear. Call these guys or check the consumer laws in your state as well.

https://www.kgglaw.com/class-action/land-rover-and-jaguar-timing-chain-defect-class-action/

 

[ryanjl]

You can add another one to the list. 2012 RRS N/A just got towed two hours away to Mid-Atlantic Rover in Columbia, MD. 69k miles...I was just starting to get the sound and decided to start researching the topic.

I'll post a before and after video to YouTube and post here when I get my truck back...but no one in my small town of Winchester VA would even touch it.

Nightmare trying to get LRNA to help. LRNA told me to call the dealer, dealer said any help had to be approved by LRNA, called them back and the not-very-nice lady at LRNA offered to open a case if I sent her documentation on all oil changes and brought the car in. I'm the third owner (I'm friends with the second) and had all the oil changes...except the first. Second owner bought the car with just over 16k miles....called the original dealer in Cary, NC and they had no service records for my VIN. Called LRNA back and apparently when they sell a car through a LR dealer all previous service records are "deleted". Smart on their part, but screwed me. I can't prove the first oil change ever happened.

Also -JLR changed(?) the oil specification sometime in the recent past. My owners manual states the Ford WSS M2C-925-A spec, which the the LM 5W-20 AA Special Tec I've been using carried if you look at the picture of the bottle on Amazon. I checked a bottle in my garage and that spec is no longer cited. The new LM oil that is approved for this engine meets STJLR.51.5122 and I can only find it at FCP Euro (and is a 0W-20). https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/0w20-special-tec-lr-5-liter-liqui-moly-lm20410 (Shout out to LM for helping me via email).

I would bet that since I didn't use dealer oil I'd be rejected for using a non-approved oil anyway, so I decided to take my $$$ to an independent Rover specialist and avoid the dealer.

Last data point - this car had 16k mile oil changes until I got it at 48k. I did my first at ~11k and after that have done every ~7k/12 months (I don't drive this car much). I also use Ceratec and LM Engine Flush at every change.

$4400 - replace the Tensioners, Rails/Blades, Chains, Cam Sprockets (so they're pulling the valve covers/injectors), new timing covers, and many gaskets and seals.

I called 10 places and I got a range of $3500 (just replacing the tensioners and blades) to $6000-$6700 (full job) to $10,000 (this was Loudon RoVA who I'll never call again). Dealer wanted $8500.

If the second owner bought it at 16k, there's a chance owner one never changed the oil. But even then, it wouldn't be too far beyond Land Rover's factory recommendations.

 

[equalizer]

All 5.0's have this problem.

Not the 3.0 SCV6?
Doesn't the SCV6 share the same block and, I guess chain as the 5.0 v8?

Post #101 at page 11 poses a similar question, but no one AFAIK quoted/replied to it.

 

[NASdiesel]

Not the 3.0 SCV6?
Doesn't the SCV6 share the same block and, I guess chain as the 5.0 v8?

Post #101 at page 11 poses a similar question, but no one AFAIK quoted/replied to it.

The answer is, they have the updated chain guides, but those too, due to design, will wear eventually. Big question is when.