LRNA comes thru finally but...

[manoftaste]

So after months (about a year and a half to be exact) of back and forth, visiting various service depts at different dealerships trying to get all the issues addressed (some got fixed, some didn't), getting a field service engineer involved (who has been extremely helpful), emails/pics exchanges, etc, etc, I finally got a call from LRNA saying that they have decided to declare the vehicle lemon.

They did call me several weeks ago but I just thought it was another follow up call so I never responded back but then I got another call and I happened to pick up the phone.

So I have three choices now:

1. Get the refund,
2. Get the vehicle replaced with a similar one,
3. Keep my LR4 and accept compensation from LRNA after signing a release of liability (so I am told).

I am not sure whats the amount of the compensation as I have not asked them yet.

This is all good news for me as I just want to replace the vehicle with a similar one. But I wish they had made this decision a few months earlier, here' why:

Before owing this LR4, I had owned my 06 LR3 HSE 4.4 V8 for six years (two years without extended warranty) and put close to 50k miles on it. I drove that truck under pretty much every circumstance mother nature/terrain/task at hand had to offer, except real off-roading and towing. Stop and go traffic of NYC or 405 in LA, snow storms (fresh powder, deep, etc), many long freeway trips (including one 3000 mile cross country trip when I moved to west coast), full load (seven passengers) or just me the driver (freeway or city), high altitude, sea level, etc.

Point is, even though I dont have a heavy foot and I am generally gentle with my cars from break-in to replace time except when the need for aggressiveness/fun arrives every now and then, I always felt that those 300 horses weren't enough for hauling that tank except on the freeway when I stepped on it at 70 mph, LR3 shot with constant pull, provided the car wasn't fully loaded, the grade wasn't steep and the altitude wasn't high. Otherwise, in general that 4.4 v8 always felt stressed and overtaxed for those 5800 pounds.

In my humble opinion, I feel that the v8 in my LR4 is just sufficient (and not more than that). I am comfortable with some power/torque in reserve when I need to have more load in the truck (passengers or my production equipment, etc).

So if I went with option two (getting a new truck) I have to give up the V8 which I really dont want to do. Nevertheless, I stopped by my local dealership this weekend to check out the 14 LR4, sat in one parked on the showroom floor there and as expected, I do not like that shifter knob and steering paddles. I have driven jag and evoque loaners with it, it just doesnt work for me. Its much easier for me to just throw the lever in sport mode, up or down shift if there is a need without moving my hand away, throw it back to D if needed, etc, its all very quick and part of reflexes without having to search, look etc.

I did not care much for the removal of the Terrain Response knob. The new push button just doesnt feel part of the same dash design and feels flimsy etc. It feels that you could hit it by mistake if you are not careful. Everything else around it is knobs (radio/AC etc). I really like the build quality, chunky, heavy feel of the current TR knob, and thats how it should be. Also, the new TR buttons panel has caused a little storage area there to go away. Currently, I am able to put my phone in the little storage area next the TR knob but in 14 thats gone, great.

The phone now in MY14 (correct me if I am wrong) has to be inside the upper glove box if you want it to be connected via USB. I like to have my phone connected via USB (for better music quality vs bluetooth) and then bluetooth also connected for the phone calls. And I like the idea of my phone being outside, if I quickly want to use its nav or glance at my email or text (during stop lights of course) all while my phone is being charged while connected via USB. Now it seems, if my want my phone to be outside, the only option is to connect it to the car via bluetooth, and charge it via a conventional car charger. Great Also, USB panel in the glove box means less room there. Great, more "less" room.

So even if I get over the whole V8 vs SCV6 (at least I get the 8-speed) and try to give it a shot anyways, I have to deal with the new gear shifter knob thing among other annoyances.

While at the dealership, I again tried to convince myself for the Sport or the FFRR, sat in them again, tried to feel them out but there is just not enough room in these and those 21s or 22s cannot be a good thing on even a rough dirt road.

This weekend, I also stopped by a lexus dealership for the first time to check out their lx570. Honestly, I was a bit disappointed. I felt LR4 has more room inside (and I am not talking about the cargo area where there is no contest). Too much plastic inside, yes. I felt the whole dashboard, while really really well built, is a bit outdated (buttons, switches, etc). The inside of the doors are too skinny for such a big SUV (its the area right under the lower edge of the windows where you could rest your arm). In this regard my LR4 gives me a much better sense of security that I am not so close to the glass and that there is a thick cushioning buffer (leather etc) between my body and the outside of the door. In short, the LX is really well built overall but doesn't warrant 90k for me. I came back from LX with a bit more appreciation for my LR4 (just wish that LR had not skimped on certain aspects of craftsmanship/build/quality etc, like unwanted gaps between panels, no protection on bottom door sills etc).

So friends, as pretty evident from this post, quite frankly I am not sure what to do at this point. Really want to stick to this brand, even toying with the idea of getting a used LR4 V8 as a replacement if I could get one in an impeccable condition. I really love the drive of my LR4 (save the firmer than LR3 suspension and lighter steering resulting in decreased freeway ride quality), the smoothness of the creamy V8, the architectural design (nothing like that out there), the acres of room inside, the comfort of knowing that it has the best of both worlds integrated body-frame design (the only one on the planet today) etc.

Seems like the engineers at LR are trying there best to build better cars to bring more customers in or at least keep the returning customers happy while the bean counters/marketing (and even the design dept this time, I might add) as well as the dealerships are trying everything they can in their power to keep them away

Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

On a quick side note and I feel like I have to add this here. After having been thru what I have been thru (extremely bad pre-sales to sales experience which includes two dealership practically turning down custom ordering the car, then waiting for the car for one full year as the first custom build was sold to someone else by mistake, then driving a rental for the next six or seven months until the next car arrived, to the frustrating ownership experience), and after having been thru three different dealerships, my last stop dealership (in particular the service manager/shop foreman there) and the FSE from LRNA are among the top reasons for me to even consider an LR vehicle again. These two guys have gone out of their way to help out from identifying to finding solutions to fix the issues.

 

[rovernut]

Difficult decision. A dedicated iPod will solve your music problem, but not the charging problem, the other issues are non-solveable, but changes you'd have to live with if you could. Without knowing how bad the problems are or if they have been resolved it's tough to imagine keeping your current LR.

I'd be tempted to post the VIN if LRNA wasn't looking out for you (since I'm looking at used LR4's I'm being selfish), especially since their delay has made you "lose" the V8. Used prices a for low mile LR4's are VERY high right now, and finding the "perfect" color, equipment and condition is very tough.

I know, as I'm looking at a bunch of vehicles, there are a ton of "lemons" from various manufacturers out there on the second hand market (Texas seems to be where they all land) with lemon titles but are "fixed" and carry balance of MFG warranty - one wonders if the second owner can lemon if the issues persist. There are even more that are "assisted buy-backs" from mfg's that are on the market with "clean" titles that we'll never know about until it's too late.....

 

[GoLoaf]

Does "Get the refund" mean that you essentially sell the vehicle back to LRNA?

Based on your post, I think you give the car back, and then find a used 2013 V8 LR4. I bet you can find a nice one that didn't do more than grocery duty. Or maybe one that's been retired from the service loaner fleet (that's how I picked up my '12).

 

[manoftaste]

I'd be tempted to post the VIN if LRNA wasn't looking out for you (since I'm looking at used LR4's I'm being selfish), especially since their delay has made you "lose" the V8. Used prices a for low mile LR4's are VERY high right now, and finding the "perfect" color, equipment and condition is very tough.

Sorry, didn't have my coffee today but dont understand how posting my VIN would help.

 

[Surfrider77]

My guess is so people on the board that are in the market for an LR4 know to avoid it.

Back to your original post, I am just curious, can you briefly list what was wrong with your truck?

 

[danrhiggins]

Ah, the double-edged sword of having multiple options. Not easy. I left a number of conveniences behind when I gave up my MDX for the LR4. But as I researched various vehicles before landing on the LR4 in every case they had some helpful/useful features that I would love to see on the LR4 but then they also lacked things that are on the LR4. It is tougher for you because you liked what you had - but now you know its, well, a lemon.

I can't disagree with the shifter knob. Driving off road this weekend it was a PITA because you need to use the paddle shifters while the wheel is doing 2-3 turns and therefore the paddles are never where you want them. Other than that I did notice that the rim around the shifter knob perfectly fits the bottom of a paper Starbucks cup so I can set my latte there if it is parked - and watch it get launched if I start up the truck.

I somewhat addressed the USB/charger-glovebox problem by using a somewhat longer charger cable and keeping my iPhone connected but laying on the small shelf above the upper glovebox. Not as convenient but I can still reach it should I need to.

As for the V6 I guess it depends how much you want this truck to press you against the back of the seat or if, possibly, you need it for lots of towing. I am finding that I get plenty of acceleration and some of that press into the seat back when I want to. Not saying it is the same as the V8 as I wouldn't know because I haven't driven one. But it is more than I was expecting for a truck this size. Of course I do a lot of driving at elevation.

 

[epiclr4]

Wow, ManofTaste, I will be sending you a PM as I am going through this process as well.

I feel your pain as my 2014 LR4 has been a struggle the past few months. While I hear your concerns about the Knob, revised console and USB ports I find that I enjoy the layout more than in the 2010-2013 models. I use the pop out tray under the temp controls to hold my phone. I find the knob quick to turn to S and have my other hand on the paddle to downshift when needed. I also only use the USB port in the dash for charging the passengers phone and nothing else. Picked up a little 12v charger to stick in the console. As for the engine, I posted a thread on that as to my feelings and I think you have posted there.

But with the comparison between years out of the way and the desire to compare the LR to other brands and models that is even more of a headache! As with all these struggles I have struggled with if I made the right decision to come to this brand to begin with. But just like you when looking at other options I struggle to see the luxury, utility and capability that the LR brand has built into its vehicles. Even with all the frustration I have had with mine I am struggling to find something different that can suit my crazy lifestyle and tug on my heart strings like the RRS or LR4 has the capability to do.

So, as I have been starting the process that you are currently at the decision of making I too am struggling to make a decision. I'm sure this post was of no help but to know that you are not alone here. I look forward to your decision.

 

[epiclr4]

Does "Get the refund" mean that you essentially sell the vehicle back to LRNA?

What I have been told the "Get the Refund" option gives you is everything you have paid for on the vehicle. All payments, interest included, and taxes from the purchase as well as the price of the vehicle. From there they take your mileage from the first time the vehicle was brought in for a fix, based on the business IRS mileage rate * .5, I believe, and deduct the mileage value. What you are left with is the "Refund".

 

[GoLoaf]

What I have been told the "Get the Refund" option gives you is everything you have paid for on the vehicle. All payments, interest included, and taxes from the purchase as well as the price of the vehicle. From there they take your mileage from the first time the vehicle was brought in for a fix, based on the business IRS mileage rate * .5, I believe, and deduct the mileage value. What you are left with is the "Refund".

So the idea is that they take the value of the car, subtract an amount for usage, and pay you that in a refund. And they take the car back, right?

Sounds like a really good option. Take the money and run, and then figure out a new vehicle situation once you've distanced yourself from the lemon situation.

 

[danrhiggins]

IF you decide to stick with LR can you wait for another LR4? IF you still want an LR4 you may want to line up a used one before you commit - of you can. There aren't a lot of 14s left at the dealerships unless they are something nobody wants. Just make sure you don't buy epiclr4's. :-(. IF you decide to wait for an order I would have them bump you to the front of the line.

As for changing brands I would encourage you to be careful. I did that nice out of frustration with a particular vehicle and regretted it. Grass is greener sort of thing.

Watching epiclr4's travails while waiting for my order to come in I tried very hard to like the Toyota vehicles. But I knew that after a few months the poor use of space, the general body bloat and the lack of innovation (or even some decent imitation) with the interior layout and seat design would drive me nuts.). After spending my first full day of real off roadung with trainer Bill Burke on Sunday I am even more convinced that I would have regretted a new Land Cruiser or Lexus. From turning radius to solid axle to body shape they would have struggled where we went (included tight turns through a boulder strewn road) and tins of wheel articulation work. (BTW, that day was incredible - for me the neophyte). I could not be happier with my LR4. Now I'm camping my way to Seattle and am using the back of the LR4 as my living quarters. ;-). Of course none of this May matter for your needs.