jwest
Full Access Member
Really, your mom, kid, best friend?
Third row seats!
- Thread starter Canalawyer
- Start date
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Really, your mom, kid, best friend?
Yeah really. I'd take them for a motorcycle ride too. Or even canoeing. Statistically, canoeing is more dangerous. I'll stop now. I know I'm not adding anything to this thread. It's certainly nothing personal, I just wouldn't be too concerned about it.
jwest
Full Access Member
Well, I think it does add to the question of whether or not to retrofit 3rd row seats.
I ride a motorcycle and my passenger is going to be wearing a helmet. I think no seat belt in a car is like no helmet and pretty bad idea.
Now canoeing, that's an awesome comparison !
I'll have to think on that one along with winter mountaineering.
My reason for seatbelt in cars is because the human body does not like slamming into things at 60 mph. You do realize a loose body in the 3rd row could end up going through the windshield outbound or getting really eFFed up on the way. Roll overs are usually interesting to watch when bodies start partially coming out as it turns over again onto them....
I ride a motorcycle and my passenger is going to be wearing a helmet. I think no seat belt in a car is like no helmet and pretty bad idea.
Now canoeing, that's an awesome comparison !
I'll have to think on that one along with winter mountaineering.My reason for seatbelt in cars is because the human body does not like slamming into things at 60 mph. You do realize a loose body in the 3rd row could end up going through the windshield outbound or getting really eFFed up on the way. Roll overs are usually interesting to watch when bodies start partially coming out as it turns over again onto them....
If you're going to compare apples to apples regarding safety and your conscience, you have to compare similar crashes. I would waaaaaay rather be unbelted in the 3rd seat of a 5700 lb truck if someone crashes in to me at 60 (or any speed) than helmeted on the back of a 500 lb motorcycle.
If you're that worried about varying degrees of safety, you would require helmets and/or neck braces be worn in your car. You'd also need to go back to shorter tires, remove your roof rack, put the tire back underneath, get rid of all the extra weight that raises the center of gravity, etc... But then that would just suck.
Anyway, I think of the 3rd row as an 'occasional' seat. If it's being used 15,000 miles per year, then yes I would have a couple degrees more of concern about the lack of the belts.
Speaking of things flying at 60, I have heard a box of tissues in the back window can cause you serious injury in a crash. Or a cell phone on the dash. Or yes, a body flying from the 3rd row
If you're that worried about varying degrees of safety, you would require helmets and/or neck braces be worn in your car. You'd also need to go back to shorter tires, remove your roof rack, put the tire back underneath, get rid of all the extra weight that raises the center of gravity, etc... But then that would just suck.
Anyway, I think of the 3rd row as an 'occasional' seat. If it's being used 15,000 miles per year, then yes I would have a couple degrees more of concern about the lack of the belts.
Speaking of things flying at 60, I have heard a box of tissues in the back window can cause you serious injury in a crash. Or a cell phone on the dash. Or yes, a body flying from the 3rd row
On my 2008 LR3 HSE I can count on one hand the number of times I've used the rear 3rd row seats. Generally my passengers and I find them cramped, uncomfortable, and very awkward to get into and out of in the LR3. You have to collapse the main rear passenger seats and then the 3rd row passenger basically crawls around into the seats, which have almost no leg room and no depth for legs and feet.
If I had a choice I would have gone without the rear seats. I could use the space they fill more effectively for survival cargo and spare parts if I was off roading. Unless you're talking about rug rats or young kids in the back anyone else from older teens on up will find it very uncomfortable, in my opinion.
Add to that the sturdiness of retro-fitted seats vs. factory original designed and installed rear seats. The airbag issue is totally secondary in my mind. Unless you have a major side impact or roll over it's minimal benefit at best. This is based on my personal experience with rollover/other impact accidents in pre-airbag cars and on motorcycles. I agree that helmets on a motorcycle are a no-brainer but shouldn't be law - not for this discussion thread. Same with seat belts. Same with air bags.
They help but in the end the amount of mass you're in vs. the mass of impact (such as another vehicle) is the more critical factor. Larger mass objects are able to absorb more impact energy, hence why so many big American steel vehicles while not as fuel efficient are a lot safer in major accidents (such as trucks) than smaller vehicles like a Prius. Think of Volvo and Saab with their steel interior passenger cages.
Bottom line: It's your choice and up to you, what you want to do. It's your car; and opinions are and often smell the same as.... rear ends. If you want to carry more people get a large van, or at least a minivan. That's what they're designed for, but not for going off road. Enjoy!
If I had a choice I would have gone without the rear seats. I could use the space they fill more effectively for survival cargo and spare parts if I was off roading. Unless you're talking about rug rats or young kids in the back anyone else from older teens on up will find it very uncomfortable, in my opinion.
Add to that the sturdiness of retro-fitted seats vs. factory original designed and installed rear seats. The airbag issue is totally secondary in my mind. Unless you have a major side impact or roll over it's minimal benefit at best. This is based on my personal experience with rollover/other impact accidents in pre-airbag cars and on motorcycles. I agree that helmets on a motorcycle are a no-brainer but shouldn't be law - not for this discussion thread. Same with seat belts. Same with air bags.
They help but in the end the amount of mass you're in vs. the mass of impact (such as another vehicle) is the more critical factor. Larger mass objects are able to absorb more impact energy, hence why so many big American steel vehicles while not as fuel efficient are a lot safer in major accidents (such as trucks) than smaller vehicles like a Prius. Think of Volvo and Saab with their steel interior passenger cages.
Bottom line: It's your choice and up to you, what you want to do. It's your car; and opinions are and often smell the same as.... rear ends. If you want to carry more people get a large van, or at least a minivan. That's what they're designed for, but not for going off road. Enjoy!
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jwest
Full Access Member
If you're going to compare apples to apples regarding safety and your conscience, you have to compare similar crashes. I would waaaaaay rather be unbelted in the 3rd seat of a 5700 lb truck if someone crashes in to me at 60 (or any speed) than helmeted on the back of a 500 lb motorcycle.
If you're that worried about varying degrees of safety, you would require helmets and/or neck braces be worn in your car. You'd also need to go back to shorter tires, remove your roof rack, put the tire back underneath, get rid of all the extra weight that raises the center of gravity, etc... But then that would just suck.
Anyway, I think of the 3rd row as an 'occasional' seat. If it's being used 15,000 miles per year, then yes I would have a couple degrees more of concern about the lack of the belts.
Speaking of things flying at 60, I have heard a box of tissues in the back window can cause you serious injury in a crash. Or a cell phone on the dash. Or yes, a body flying from the 3rd row
It's all fun n games until someone gets hurt
How will you feel when supporting the no seat belts idea suggestion to someone on a forum who is clearly asking for advice when they report later that a friend go hurt in a freak accident the next day ?
Ok, it's like this, just because an aftermarket wheel may fit the bolt pattern, if it isn't load rated for the lr3, then I'd say that is a bad idea as well.
That's my stance on these things: "Do it the right way or not at all"
jwest
Full Access Member
Yet the lr3/4 3rd is row is about the best suv seating available aside from maybe the non-4x4 benz GL or massive Expedition. I think the footwell is actually great because most 3rd row seating you end up sitting only about 6" above the foot level which is not going to be fun for more than a quick run to town from a campsite or something short like that. I hear there will be a BMW X7 and imagine that 3rd row will be much more comfortable regardless of debates on what the hell that vehicle will be used for.
Where the lr3/4 trumps all others except the benz GL is how the seats are stored into the floor leaving a very large flat and tall storage area at the same time. Same for the 2nd row, fabulous design for function as seats or cargo or any combination. Think of how goofy the $80k or $90k Land Cruiser or LX 570 3rd row seats function. They are both in the darn way constantly as well as uncomfortable and also a PITA to remove.
You did have a choice. Why did you buy one with 3rd row? For "intended off roading", 5 seat layout is better because the rear hvac unit is missing as well as the tubing for it from the right side wheel well. As you mention, gear storage is then easier but if this is at all an issue for you, just remove the 3rd row seats like I did. It's pretty simple really and what's nice is the 3rd row reading lamps for camping uses and grab handles for various cargo tying into the window "shelf" . I have a ton of stuff in the volume where the 3rd row seats were located:
Bushranger X-jack, extensive recovery gear bag, 2 GSI aluminum camp tables, 4 camp stools, 4 REI telescoping poles for tarping, mtn bike tools and spare parts box, ARB 12v florescent work lamp, Hannibal rear awning walls, and cross wise where 3rd row feet would be, High lift extreme with 48" bar, soft ground base & wheel claw.
3rd row seats weighed about 80lbs and I probably added back a little more than that for net near zero.
So someone choosing to behave like a ***** should cost me more insurance $ ? Maybe that conundrum could be solved if people would sign a form saying "zero coverage for anyone not wearing a helmet or seat belt". That way an insurance company will not feel the need to cover people who make poor choices and I won't have to pay for their choices.
JWESST:
Never mind. Not getting into any debates. Choice on seating isn't always an option unless you're building a car from scratch and buying new.
My personal preferences and yours are different and thus my own, so not up for debate. To the original poster, I added my experience and thoughts - for what they're worth.
But as I mentioned at the end of my post, opinions and assholes are much the same thing - everyone has them and they can both stink.
But thanks for your input as well, hopefully it benefits all.
Never mind. Not getting into any debates. Choice on seating isn't always an option unless you're building a car from scratch and buying new.
My personal preferences and yours are different and thus my own, so not up for debate. To the original poster, I added my experience and thoughts - for what they're worth.
But as I mentioned at the end of my post, opinions and assholes are much the same thing - everyone has them and they can both stink.
But thanks for your input as well, hopefully it benefits all.
jwest
Full Access Member
sorry, picking on semantics a bit. Just saying you had a choice because you did not "have to" buy the lr3 at all or that specific one.
When I bought mine, I hadn't really given it much thought to be honest and was choosing between an SE with all options including HD but maybe no 3rd row. It was white paint. I'd had a couple white vehicles and liked the warm toned Java black and figured with it fully loaded, how could I go wrong. The 3rd row got use maybe 3 times in the first 20k and removed for good a couple years ago. It's a 3 seater HSE now
When I bought mine, I hadn't really given it much thought to be honest and was choosing between an SE with all options including HD but maybe no 3rd row. It was white paint. I'd had a couple white vehicles and liked the warm toned Java black and figured with it fully loaded, how could I go wrong. The 3rd row got use maybe 3 times in the first 20k and removed for good a couple years ago. It's a 3 seater HSE now
It's all fun n games until someone gets hurt
How will you feel when supporting the no seat belts idea suggestion to someone on a forum who is clearly asking for advice when they report later that a friend go hurt in a freak accident the next day ?
Oh not to worry, it wouldn't even come close to phasing me, free will and all that...
Anyway, I said it wouldn't bother ME to not have seatbelts ( I also don't think it would be hard at all to install them). I don't have to worry about it, heck, all I have left back there in mine IS the seatbelts so I'm super safe!
Besides, that dude's not coming back to this thread, lol!
